Afrihost/OpenWeb ADSL class-action lawsuit

WeWantSpeed said:
@Gary, Arthur and others that share their opinion.

You clearly don't understand the concept of "time is money". I have been through a dozen ISPs and don't have time to try a dozen more every time they decide not to honor their side of the deal.

The reason I am willing to put the time into a lawsuit is because I believe in making a difference in SA. I am for increased rate of development and improved access to information. Taking on corrupt corporations will only make SA stronger.
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Serious question, how do you foresee a victory such a court case to force better performance from the companies. If the court says you right then what. Are you suing for money or to force the companies to do something, bearing in mind ADSL contracts are a best effort type contract. How do you get around this. Unless you saying they took money from you and never gave you any connection.
 
WeWantSpeed said:
@Gary, Arthur and others that share their opinion.

You clearly don't understand the concept of "time is money".
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Clearly. ;)

Personally, I have neither the time nor the money to squander on legal actions against rebrobate ISPs, or windmills.

It's competition that improves things, not legal action. Simply move your business to someone else you think is better, while you still can. There is no greater force for social improvement than people freely and responsibly choosing to spend their time and money with those who provide the best value.
 
Bernie said:
Serious question, how do you foresee a victory such a court case to force better performance from the companies. If the court says you right then what. Are you suing for money or to force the companies to do something, bearing in mind ADSL contracts are a best effort type contract. How do you get around this. Unless you saying they took money from you and never gave you any connection.
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'Best effort' is a clause that gives them a leg to stand on if your connection suffers due to reasons beyond their control, such as a bad line. It does not mean they can provide an inferior service. It will be on the ISP to prove they took all possible action to ensure they gave the consumer the best possible service under said conditions. While there are ISPs that have been providing a better service, they cannot prove this at all.

I'd suggest anyone that wants to understand more about this should read the consumer protection act. This is all in there as well as provision for class action lawsuits. It even states that a consumer group is not restricted by the company insolvency act, therefore even OW with their backyard business will not be able to escape. Directors and stakeholders can be held directly liable. It confirms this in the company registration act as well.

All these resources are available online for anyone to read. If we get enough people on board, then all questions and concerns will be addressed by qualified lawyers at meetings organized for just that purpose.
 
WeWantSpeed said:
'Best effort' is a clause that gives them a leg to stand on if your connection suffers due to reasons beyond their control, such as a bad line. It does not mean they can provide an inferior service. It will be on the ISP to prove they took all possible action to ensure they gave the consumer the best possible service under said conditions. While there are ISPs that have been providing a better service, they cannot prove this at all.

I'd suggest anyone that wants to understand more about this should read the consumer protection act. This is all in there as well as provision for class action lawsuits. It even states that a consumer group is not restricted by the company insolvency act, therefore even OW with their backyard business will not be able to escape. Directors and stakeholders can be held directly liable. It confirms this in the company registration act as well.

All these resources are available online for anyone to read. If we get enough people on board, then all questions and concerns will be addressed by qualified lawyers at meetings organized for just that purpose.
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"He who accuses must prove" ...
 
Arthur said:
Clearly. ;)

Personally, I have neither the time nor the money to squander on legal actions against rebrobate ISPs, or windmills.

It's competition that improves things, not legal action. Simply move your business to someone else you think is better, while you still can. There is no greater force for social improvement than people freely and responsibly choosing to spend their time and money with those who provide the best value.
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The beauty of a class action lawsuit is that it won't cost you anything and takes minimal time.
 
Bernie said:
Serious question, how do you foresee a victory such a court case to force better performance from the companies. If the court says you right then what. Are you suing for money or to force the companies to do something, bearing in mind ADSL contracts are a best effort type contract. How do you get around this. Unless you saying they took money from you and never gave you any connection.
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Yes, I intend on suing for money, lots of money. Got to hit them where it hurts.
 
Arthur said:
Who pays the lawyers?
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I have discussed this with prospective counsel. I will pay a capped fee if the lawsuit is unsuccessful. If successful, they will take a small percentage of the compensation that the defendant pays out.
 
Arthur said:
Who pays the lawyers? I cant we see anyone taking this on pro bono, pro deo, or pro amico.
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And if there is an appeal (as there surely will be one if it gets that far) - lots more money to go to the lawyers.
 
WeWantSpeed said:
I have discussed this with prospective counsel. I will pay a capped fee if the lawsuit is unsuccessful. If successful, they will take a small percentage of the compensation that the defendant pays out.
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You need to swot up more. In terms of the 2013 rules, a lawyer may not have a financial interest in the outcome. You're misapplying an American model to SA.
 
Arthur said:
You need to swot up more. In terms of the 2013 rules, a lawyer may not have a financial interest in the outcome. You're misapplying an American model to SA.
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Please elaborate as I've used this model post 2013
 
MickeyD said:
First:
Originally Posted by WeWantSpeed View Post
It will force better service and improve things. When precedent is set and companies are afraid of legal action, they tend to honor their contracts.
Then:
Originally Posted by WeWantSpeed View Post
Yes, I intend on suing for money, lots of money. Got to hit them where it hurts.

And right there your cause is found wanting.
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What is your point? Companies are only afraid of losing money.

If they aren't afraid to lose money when they don't bring their side, what will they be afraid of? A judge? I really don't see what you are getting at.
 
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WeWantSpeed said:
What is your point? Companies are only afraid of losing money.
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You think?

They will tie you up in court for years to come.

Good luck.

BTW I see you have mentioned loss of income somewhere. Were you using business accounts from the ISPs and Telkom? They usually have SLAs that you can enforce.
 
WeWantSpeed said:
Okay, now he is asking for it. I have RECENT experience with these 2 in particular. I HAVE NOT ONCE COMPARED THE SERVICE BETWEEN AH AND OW. DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS THAT I AM TYPING?

I get that you don't like me taking on AH. Get over it! You made your point, now move on. If others agree with you then your precious AH will not be in danger.

I have sufficient experience in this field and am personally losing over R10k per year on undelivered services, not including lost business. Even with Legal fees, I will net gain income from a successful lawsuit by just getting what I pay for.
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^business?
 
MickeyD said:
You think?

They will tie you up in court for years to come.

Good luck.

BTW I see you have mentioned loss of income somewhere. Were you using business accounts from the ISPs and Telkom? They usually have SLAs that you can enforce.
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I have had both business and personal accounts for different premises and purposes. Enforcing the SLAs as you mentioned will also require legal action as they just claim it wasn't in their control. But I am not in this for the relatively small compensation I will receive for lost income, my time is worth far more. I want to make a difference for all the small guys that can't afford legal action on their own, and make a difference for the SA economy. I still believe in this country. Call me an idealist or a romantic or whatever you like. Somebody has to do something.
 
WeWantSpeed said:
Yes, I intend on suing for money, lots of money. Got to hit them where it hurts.
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Dream on. This is not America. Breach of contract? At best you can recover a few months of your subscription fees. Did you take reasonable steps to mitigate your loss? Were you contractually prevented from using another ISP? No? If your action succeeds (a major if), you'll be lucky if a court awards a refund of two months' subs. Your failure to terminate your month-to-month agreement is evidence enough that your "losses" are notional (a nice way of saying fictitious) and not real. SA courts don't award punitive damages in contract cases.
 
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