LCD and Plasma Bargains

[1lum1nat1]

What I know of TV's is dangerous, so please forgive me if I ask a stupid question.

My inlaws got one of those 4 series 42" sammy plasma's, seems like one of the best mistakes we ever made. If I can't get new content in 720p I don't want it.

However, I've heard from a few people that after a few years plasma's need regassing and coclours fade. Is this true? I'm contemplating getting the new 43D450's some or other time and I can't seem to get a more value for money TV than that.

 

[fusion01]

Well it depends on what you want to use the display for.

In the budget end of the market (this is the 'Bargins' thread after all) there is a trade off between Plasma & LCD/LED. Low-end LCD/LED's have the advantage of Full HD resolution while low-end Plasma's advantage is better colours/contrast, but not at FHD or even proper HD.

From what I've seen you wont find a proper HD Plasma for under R8000 and a FHD Plasma will be north of R11000. By contrast my 40' LCD cost me R5200 and allows me to experience the full resolution potential of my HDPVR, PS3, XBox360 & Laptop.

If all you want is SD TV via RF/RCA, Plasma will be better, but if you want to use it for higher resolution applications you will be paying a premium for Plasma.

Point made You got a 40" FHD LCD for R5,200? Then I'd completely agree. If simply HD-ready then the D450 plasma @ 43" (also HD-ready) is R5,600 - on a par then price-wise. I see full HD LCD's only @ 37" going for approx R5.5k...

I suppose I was wrong to suggest plasma is better. It's all down to preference at the end of the day and I do consider LCD to have less problems with clouding etc than LED. Black levels are getting better on these panel types and in some instances are better than plasma (surprisingly). But the issue also with LCD panels is that 'panel lottery' issue where you don't know what panel type you're getting. PVA is best, but I kept getting MVA panels in both my LED units, which are inferior (poorer black and contrast levels). It's simply not honest. But to most they're not bothered and if happy - great!

 

[fusion01]

What I know of TV's is dangerous, so please forgive me if I ask a stupid question.

My inlaws got one of those 4 series 42" sammy plasma's, seems like one of the best mistakes we ever made. If I can't get new content in 720p I don't want it.

However, I've heard from a few people that after a few years plasma's need regassing and coclours fade. Is this true? I'm contemplating getting the new 43D450's some or other time and I can't seem to get a more value for money TV than that.

Not sure what you mean about the 720p issue? 'Best mistakes?'

I've not read any comment about re-gassing / colours fading in ~4 months trolling forums such as 'AVSforum' where hard-core geeks hang out, very willing to bring up the tiniest of faults!

According to AVSforums it's a complete myth: http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/195753-plasma-regassing.html

There was an issue with Panasonic black levels rising over time, very common in the 2010 models, but this is different and didn't effect Samsung units. The units do state good for 100,000 hours. I also got an extended 3 year service plan for R600.00 - 10% of the unit cost (@ Tafelberg Furnishers). Things CAN AND DO go wrong with any tv - whether plasma or LCD. Worth spending the extra - budget it into your costs.

 

[fusion01]

No to qualify for HD a screen must be able to natively display 1280 pixel across. What your talking about is HD-Ready, that is can accept a 1280 width signal but must downscale it to the avaliable 1024 pixel width.

This is what the D450 is doing - it accepts the 1080p signal from the PS3. Would one get less dithering if setting the native res for the PS3 to 720p? Surely all this scaling is creating more dithering? I don't have the experience to know whether an improvement is possible. It's not a problem, but I am curious

 

[1lum1nat1]

I should've gone through the effort of explaining.

A lot of people i talked to advised us to rather opt for a full HD LCD at the time. We went to Kloppers, our local "expert" store. At the time a superugby game was on and it sold the plasma immediately. None of the tv's, even most of the high end stuff, did'nt come close to the plasma and they did a very good job hiding the plasma's. Even after we bought the plasma most criticized our choice.

What I meant about the 720p content comment was, when I get new movies, if it's not in a decent 720rip, I don't want it.

 

[Roman4604]

Point made You got a 40" FHD LCD for R5,200?

Yep got the special running at Makro from Samsung Series 5 (LA40C530) + HDPVR 2P + Drifta at R6999. If I subtract HDPVR @ R1299 and Drifta @ R599 then TV was R5101. Think they sell the TV on its own for around R5500.

 

[Roman4604]

Would one get less dithering if setting the native res for the PS3 to 720p?

Maybe, give it a try. The less downscaling that needs to be done the less the 'smudging effect' caused by downscaling.

Me, I'm a stickler for razor sharp images, prefering higher native resolution to other aspects like colour correctness/vibrancy.

 

[PostmanPot]

No to qualify for HD a screen must be able to natively display 1280 pixel across. What your talking about is HD-Ready, that is can accept a 1280 width signal but must downscale it to the avaliable 1024 pixel width.

HD (or HD Ready) = 720p = minimum of 720 vertical lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready

[50"] 1366x768 is "true" HD/HD Ready/720p.
[42"] 1024x768 is still HD/HD Ready/720p.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_TV#High-definition_display_resolutions

Not quite.

Because the PS3 is HDMI connected individual games can switch down to the optimal resolution deemed by the developer. My PS3 is set to 1920x1080p (dashboard uses this res), but most games will switch themselves down to 1280x720p.

The XBox360 connected via VGA is a different story. Mine is set to 1920x1080, meaning dashboard & games stay locked at FHD resolution. Replayed a few levels of Gears of War 2 at FHD, and for me it certainly isnt overrated, more like wow.

99% of games are HD/720p or less, regardless of the upscaling your TV does.

 

[PostmanPot]

What I know of TV's is dangerous, so please forgive me if I ask a stupid question.

My inlaws got one of those 4 series 42" sammy plasma's, seems like one of the best mistakes we ever made. If I can't get new content in 720p I don't want it.

Best mistakes? Because now you only want HD stuff?

Well, be glad it isn't an entry level LCD! Everything, especially SD stuff, would look worse.

However, I've heard from a few people that after a few years plasma's need regassing and coclours fade. Is this true? I'm contemplating getting the new 43D450's some or other time and I can't seem to get a more value for money TV than that.

Not true at all. I don't even think it's physically possible to re-gas plasma's. It's an old myth.

Samsung plasma's are rated at about 100,000 hours (I actually think it's more) before half life. Please don't worry about it.

You are right, you won't find better value than entry level plasma.

 

[Roman4604]

[50"] 1366x768 is "true" HD/HD Ready/720p.
[42"] 1024x768 is still HD/HD Ready/720p.

Your playing with words. Bottom line is, low end Plasmas (1024x768) cannot display a 1280x720 HD image natively.

99% of games are HD/720p or less, regardless of the upscaling your TV does.

No, the XBox send full 1920x1080 resolution to the TV, which is just displaying it at native resolution.

 

[PostmanPot]

Point made You got a 40" FHD LCD for R5,200? Then I'd completely agree. If simply HD-ready then the D450 plasma @ 43" (also HD-ready) is R5,600 - on a par then price-wise. I see full HD LCD's only @ 37" going for approx R5.5k...

Give me 42" entry plasma over 40" entry FHD LCD any day. The plasma will cost ±R1,000 less for picture quality and 2" bigger. At my viewing distance (2.5m+), FHD doesn't phase me.

I suppose I was wrong to suggest plasma is better. It's all down to preference at the end of the day and I do consider LCD to have less problems with clouding etc than LED. Black levels are getting better on these panel types and in some instances are better than plasma (surprisingly). But the issue also with LCD panels is that 'panel lottery' issue where you don't know what panel type you're getting. PVA is best, but I kept getting MVA panels in both my LED units, which are inferior (poorer black and contrast levels). It's simply not honest. But to most they're not bothered and if happy - great!

Na you weren't wrong. Plasma's are the best TV's in the world, and the choice of HT enthusiasts. But yes, LCD's have gotten very good. I still don't believe LCD will beat plasma though when comparing at the same price points. It takes a higher end LCD to beat a lower end plasma.

Luckily for me I got a SQxx (Samsung) PVA panel in my 32" 5 Series FHD LCD (PC screen). Awesome screen I have to say.

 

[PostmanPot]

I should've gone through the effort of explaining.

A lot of people i talked to advised us to rather opt for a full HD LCD at the time. We went to Kloppers, our local "expert" store. At the time a superugby game was on and it sold the plasma immediately. None of the tv's, even most of the high end stuff, did'nt come close to the plasma and they did a very good job hiding the plasma's. Even after we bought the plasma most criticized our choice.

What I meant about the 720p content comment was, when I get new movies, if it's not in a decent 720rip, I don't want it.

This.

Usual day in the park. Damn LCD fanbois. Give them a 3D "LED" TV and they'll be frothing at the mouth! Wooow!



Damn marketing gimmick, too.

 

[PostmanPot]

Your playing with words. Bottom line is, low end Plasmas (1024x768) cannot display a 1280x720 HD image natively.

Please spell correctly. It's you're.

I'm not playing with words. While >1280x>720 (1366x768 in the case of 50" plasma's) is the true HD/720p resolution, a 1024x768 rectangular pixeled 42" plasma is still regarded as a 720p wide screen HD TV. I pasted the Wikipedia link for you to see for yourself. Take the manufacturers and industry standardisers up on playing with words. I never said that they can display a 720p signal correctly. They obviously downscale. Just like a 50" 1366x768 upscales.

No, the XBox send full 1920x1080 resolution to the TV, which is just displaying it at native resolution.

99% of PS3 & Xbox games are 720p or less, regardless of upscaling.

 

[Roman4604]

Damn LCD fanbois.

No not LCD fanbois, value for money fanbois. Low end Plasma may be good for SD TV, but the value stops there.

I have no issue with FHD Plasmas, they're are fantastic, but compared to LCDs they're in a different price bracket.

 

[PostmanPot]

No not LCD fanbois, value for money fanbois. Low end Plasma may be good for SD TV, but the value stops there.

That is not true. Entry level plasma will obliterate entry level FHD LCD at displaying HD content. Even in some cases, the plasma wins at displaying FHD content! Forumites have done these exact comparisons in store. I especially loved the comparison of TRON 1080p on entry 42" plasma vs entry 40" FHD LCD and the plasma won.

Unless you are a pedantic pixel phreak, and prefer a proper scaled image instead of a downscaled and better quality image? Which won't even make much difference when at average home viewing distance...

I'm also quite sure you don't sit 1.5m from your TV.

I have no issue with FHD Plasmas, they're are fantastic, but compared to LCDs they're in a different price bracket.

Again, not true. 50" FHD plasma is cheaper than ±50" LCD!

 

[Roman4604]

Please spell correctly. It's you're.

Only those with a weak argument need to digress to the irrelevant.

99% of PS3 & Xbox games are 720p or less, regardless of upscaling.

There is no upscaling, in the sense of pixel interpolation.

The XBox is rendering the image to a FHD frame buffer internally, one does not experience any smudging effect form pixel level upscaling. I can look at the image from less than one foot and all detail is razor sharp because the TV is displaying an input signal at its exact native resolution (being 1920x1080).

 

[Tim182]

How do Plasmas compare to LCD/LED for streaming content from the PC (movies SD and HD as well as games) and Xbox?

 

[Roman4604]

Entry level plasma will obliterate entry level FHD LCD at displaying HD content. Even in some cases, the plasma wins at displaying FHD content! Forumites have done these exact comparisons in store. I especially loved the comparison of TRON 1080p on entry 42" plasma vs entry 40" FHD LCD and the plasma won.

So I must believe you and your supposed experts that FHD content displayed on a 1024x768 display will provide a superior image quality compared to a 1920x1080 display. Pull the other leg.

Just plugged my laptop into the TV and watched a FHD clip (TV media player doesnt have horspower for FHD, but the nvida GPU in laptop certainly does). The experience was equal to Blueray off the PS3, absolutely wow and razor sharp (from any distance).

I'll believe my own eyes and the equipment I have in front of me, unlike you I'm not relying on anecdotal experiences from others.

 

[PostmanPot]

Only those with a weak argument need to digress to the irrelevant.

There is no upscaling, in the sense of pixel interpolation.

The XBox is rendering the image to a FHD frame buffer internally, one does not experience any smudging effect form pixel level upscaling. I can look at the image from less than one foot and all detail is razor sharp because the TV is displaying an input signal at its exact native resolution (being 1920x1080).

Has nothing to do with a weak argument, I am a grammar nazi by nature, and it irks me when you sound intelligent yet you use poor, irritating grammar.

Perhaps my use of "upscaling" was incorrect then. Still, 99% of PS3/Xbox games are not true FHD.

List of full HD Xbox 360 games:

http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/-list-of-xbox-360-games-and-th/925112

(4 in that list).

 

[PostmanPot]

So I must believe you and your supposed experts that FHD content displayed on a 1024x768 display will provide a superior image quality compared to a 1920x1080 display. Pull the other leg.

I'll believe my own eyes and the equipment I have in front of me, unlike you I'm not relying on anecdotal experiences from others.

Superior PQ in terms of colours, contrast, blacks, etc. - yes. Inferior in terms of amount of pixels, yes. Overall, better on the plasma even though it has fewer pixels, also because most people sit outside of the correct viewing distance for a full full HD viewing experience.

I don't rely on anecdotal experiences from others - merely showing you that it's not only me that realises that entry 42" plasma is better at displaying HD than entry LCD.