MWEB CEO explains their Uncapped ADSL Acceptable Use Policy

[LazyLion]

Well what are the limits you/others hit with MWeb's uncapped?

I use about 60-100GB+ a month, I don't consider that very light usage at all really. More than that is heavy usage in my opinion. Haven't run into any problems.

I don't use Mweb. Wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

You won't really get a straight answer... because people's experiences vary wildly (which in itself is an indication of a problem - there is no consistency or benchmark to these accounts). Some people have obviously found ways around the limitations, but they know they are then in violation of Mweb's terms... or that it is a cat and mouse game until Mweb finds a way to block the loophole.

 

[Tns]

If you reason it through, some sort of limitation is necessary to keep prices keen. However, the extent to which the shaping is applied gives the service its character. MWEB won't discuss contention ratios, shaping figures or anything else that will hold them accountable. The TOC are vague as well. It's a recipe to exploit.

so i cannot dl at 512 (not that you will actually get that) on a 4M line for 24hours? 737280bytes
so actually mweb and all the other isp cannot actually support uncapped

 

[Alestorm]

I don't see why I should have to accept a re-defined term for what has so far worked well in the rest of the world.

It smells of BS.

Isn't this very obvious? ISP's can't afford to offer true uncapped in SA at a reasonable price. There will simply be too many users just downloading constantly for them to come close to a profit. One or other type of AUP/shaping has to be applied. MWeb's position isn't unreasonable or really that hard to understand either.

 

[Alestorm]

I don't use Mweb. Wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

You won't really get a straight answer... because people's experiences vary wildly (which in itself is an indication of a problem - there is no consistency or benchmark to these accounts). Some people have obviously found ways around the limitations, but they know they are then in violation of Mweb's terms... or that it is a cat and mouse game until Mweb finds a way to block the loophole.

If you don't even use them I wouldn't be posting that "You may be happy because you have never hit your limits... but once you do... you will quickly learn just how capped that account really is." as if it's fact. With the normal shaping rules in place you can easily get 200GB+ down on a 4Mb account, probably a lot more if you tried. You don't even have to try and bypass their shaping, so I don't see why it's such a problem.

Anyway, I suppose there's no point to this argument. My MWeb account happens to be great for the price and the service, and I really have no problem with their shaping. I just don't really get why some people are so against it, maybe if you used it you might realise it's not that bad at all.

 

[LazyLion]

Isn't this very obvious? ISP's can't afford to offer true uncapped in SA at a reasonable price. There will simply be too many users just downloading constantly for them to come close to a profit. One or other type of AUP/shaping has to be applied. MWeb's position isn't unreasonable or really that hard to understand either.

That's fine... there are other true uncapped products that people can use. I am using one of those. Mweb should change the name of this product, because they cannot actually offer true uncapped at this pricing level. They jumped the gun. The time will come when the other cables have landed and true uncapped becomes more realistic. But that doesn't give Mweb an excuse to mislabel their product or abuse the term uncapped. Mweb should have called these "high-cap" accounts or "super-bandwidth" accounts. Or given them a brand name that matches their range... eg. "100 Gig +" accounts.

What exactly are the limits and severe shaping/capping that you say happens on MWeb? I'd really like to know, that was the reason I left Afrihost for MWeb, but it's been fine so far.

That's what everybody would love to know... and the reason why there are many new complaint threads every week on this board. People just want Mweb to come clean and explain what their policies and thresholds are. We are all in the dark now still.

 

[Boomstomp]

Same thing... at least, it is the same thing everywhere else in the world. Only in South Africa have our enterprising ISPs decided to try and alter the definition.

I don't see why I should have to accept a re-defined term for what has so far worked well in the rest of the world.

It smells of BS.

Just because the rest of the world calls theirs uncapped and its better than ours, doesnt make uncapped == unrestricted.
even overseas the contention ratio is <1:1, so you won't get the "true uncapped" you want. If you want that so bad, get a diginet line at the speed you want. you can do what you want with it then

 

[Tanya35]

so i cannot dl at 512 (not that you will actually get that) on a 4M line for 24hours? 737280bytes
so actually mweb and all the other isp cannot actually support uncapped

You could d/l a selection of files through HTTP. Who would do that, is the question? You can browse 24/7, but again, who does that and how much data would you use?
You can kick off a torrent and get roughly 1/3 the 'normal' speed (with some peaks) over-night nowadays . During the day it just comes to a halt (est completion INFINITY lol).

To see how they shape, just buy a small capped account. The limitations become quite evident.

 

[LazyLion]

If you don't even use them I wouldn't be posting that "You may be happy because you have never hit your limits... but once you do... you will quickly learn just how capped that account really is." as if it's fact. With the normal shaping rules in place you can easily get 200GB+ down on a 4Mb account, probably a lot more if you tried. You don't even have to try and bypass their shaping, so I don't see why it's such a problem.

It is a fact... go and read through a few pages of the threads in the ADSL ISP section and you will be confronted with the fact.

What if I want to do more than 200 Gigs. What if I want to do 500 Gigs? Is that allowed? Who knows. Maybe Mweb says yes... but secretly they know they are gonna make your connection unusable at some point, or as soon as they figure out which protocol you are using they will block access there. Why can't Mweb just tell people where the limits are? There are obviously limits.... otherwise people would not be complaining as much.

 

[Tanya35]

That's what everybody would love to know... and the reason why there are many new complaint threads every week on this board. People just want Mweb to come clean and explain what their policies and thresholds are. We are all in the dark now still.

LOL. If you want to see complaints, look at the official FB wall. http://www.facebook.com/FreeTheWebSA?v=wall

 

[Alestorm]

That's fine... there are other true uncapped products that people can use. I am using one of those. Mweb should change the name of this product, because they cannot actually offer true uncapped at this pricing level. They jumped the gun. The time will come when the other cables have landed and true uncapped becomes more realistic. But that doesn't give Mweb an excuse to mislabel their product or abuse the term uncapped. Mweb should have called these "high-cap" accounts or "super-bandwidth" accounts. Or given them a brand name that matches their range... eg. "100 Gig +" accounts.

The thing is, as I see it either account should work fine for your uncapped broadband connection unless you really need to download 300GB+ off P2P every month, which obviously nobody does. Openweb's shaping policy is a bit better than MWeb's if you really get full speed after hours, but it's a similar product in the end. They call the product "shaped uncapped" and that is really what it is unless there really is any threshold, which I haven't heard of yet.

That's what everybody would love to know... and the reason why there are many new complaint threads every week on this board. People just want Mweb to come clean and explain what their policies and thresholds are. We are all in the dark now still.

Personally I'm happy with their explanation so far. They shape the entire service's P2P protocols as they need to to ensure that Http etc. can work at full speed all the time. Which is a perfectly good shaping policy. As they've said may times, there is no limit for individual users. You seem to be sure that there is though.. is there any proof? I haven't read every MWeb complaint thread, but I haven't seen anyone say that after a certain limit they throttle one account specifically like Afrihost did. I could believe that MWeb are doing this, I just haven't seen it at all yet and what they say they are doing seems to be what is actually happening instead.

 

[LazyLion]

Just because the rest of the world calls theirs uncapped and its better than ours, doesnt make uncapped == unrestricted.
even overseas the contention ratio is <1:1, so you won't get the "true uncapped" you want. If you want that so bad, get a diginet line at the speed you want. you can do what you want with it then

haha... that's like saying Just because the rest of the world calls theirs "cheap internet" and its cheaper than ours, doesn't make "our internet" == expensive.

Of course it is... everybody knows it. And everybody also knows when the term uncapped is being misused.

I don't need a diginet line... I already have an uncapped line that I can do what I want with. I'm very happy with it. And by the looks of things I am very much happier than the average mweb user.

 

[LazyLion]

The thing is, as I see it either account should work fine for your uncapped broadband connection unless you really need to download 300GB+ off P2P every month, which obviously nobody does. Openweb's shaping policy is a bit better than MWeb's if you really get full speed after hours, but it's a similar product in the end. They call the product "shaped uncapped" and that is really what it is unless there really is any threshold, which I haven't heard of yet.

Personally I'm happy with their explanation so far. They shape the entire service's P2P protocols as they need to to ensure that Http etc. can work at full speed all the time. Which is a perfectly good shaping policy. As they've said may times, there is no limit for individual users. You seem to be sure that there is though.. is there any proof? I haven't read every MWeb complaint thread, but I haven't seen anyone say that after a certain limit they throttle one account specifically like Afrihost did. I could believe that MWeb are doing this, I just haven't seen it at all yet and what they say they are doing seems to be what is actually happening instead.

There is no shaping whatsoever or any restriction on P2P on the account that I am using. And there are plenty of people who want to do more than 300 Gigs a month off P2P.

Just because you are happy with it... doesn't mean every else is... or should be. There is plenty of evidence that people are not happy.

 

[Tanya35]

In actual experience it really doesn't make much difference does it? The end result is the same... you are limited in some way.

The account that I am on is restricted during business hours only... but that was made clear from the start.
That is perfectly understandable and easy to live with.
After 7 pm at night it opens up to full speed with no restrictions whatsoever.
That is true uncapped.

Which one is this again? How good is it for games?

 

[Kosmik]

There is no shaping whatsoever or any restriction on P2P on the account that I am using. And there are plenty of people who want to do more than 300 Gigs a month off P2P.

Just because you are happy with it... doesn't mean every else is... or should be. There is plenty of evidence that people are not happy.

And the cost of said account? The only one similar was the Axxess Express + which cost R999 a month. Mweb offers a decent solution for half the cost that quite a few folks are happy to put up with, I never fully used my Axxess account and am happy with the performance and total data that I'm getting from Mweb.

 

[Lino]

So today of not being able to surf the internet while not downloading something. I have just given MWEB 30 day cancellation notice!

 

[Alestorm]

There is no shaping whatsoever or any restriction on P2P on the account that I am using. And there are plenty of people who want to do more than 300 Gigs a month off P2P.

Just because you are happy with it... doesn't mean every else is... or should be. There is plenty of evidence that people are not happy.

Is this the OpenWeb Gold account btw? I'd be pretty interested in it if you can really get full speed all the time, but you did say they limit P2P during the day right.. obviously some form of shaping? In the end similar to MWeb's, but definitely better.

Actually I wouldn't pay any more than I pay for MWeb for it, but I can see why people would.

 

[LazyLion]

Which one is this again? How good is it for games?

I've never used it for gaming. Unfortunately online gaming in SA suffers from us being so dang far away from everyone else. Lag times are killer.

And the cost of said account? The only one similar was the Axxess Express + which cost R999 a month. Mweb offers a decent solution for half the cost that quite a few folks are happy to put up with, I never fully used my Axxess account and am happy with the performance and total data that I'm getting from Mweb.

Yes, it is the same as that Axxess Express+ account for R999 a month. If your Mweb account works for you that is fine. I'm glad you have found a solution. But a lot of other people seem to be unhappy with it. I think they should move up to the OpenWeb Gold Account or to the Uncapped Express+ accounts. And I think Mweb should rename their product.

Is this the OpenWeb Gold account btw? I'd be pretty interested in it if you can really get full speed all the time, but you did say they limit P2P during the day right.. obviously some form of shaping? In the end similar to MWeb's, but definitely better.

Actually I wouldn't pay any more than I pay for MWeb for it, but I can see why people would.

No, it's the full uncapped express+ account. But yes... if you can afford it I strongly suggest you move the uncapped Gold account.

 

[drukkie]

Guys/Gals, FFS it's uncapped yes! it is!!! you never get capped...TRUTH
I'ts also shaped, YES, TRUTH.

what the hell is the problem? it's an uncapped/shaped account. go read the AUP...
So where are they lying????
PS all the other ISP's do it....but they add throttling in as well.

if you want 100 GB get afrihost
if you want 300 GB get mweb
if you want 900GB get Axxess

problem sorted

 

[Murmaider]

@Tanya35...

[mod cut]

If you don't like Mweb, don't do business with them, simple as that [mod cut]


The fact of the matter is that you are expecting a cheap, best-effort

Best effort delivery describes a network service in which the network does not provide any guarantees that data is delivered or that a user is given a guaranteed quality of service level or a certain priority. In a best effort network all users obtain best effort service, meaning that they obtain unspecified variable bit rate and delivery time, depending on the current traffic load. By removing features such as recovery of lost or corrupted data and pre-allocation of resources, the network operates more efficiently, and the network nodes are inexpensive. : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_effort_delivery

shaped solution to work like a R96 000 per/month 4MB Platinum 1:1 100% international leased line.
That is never going to happen, not today, not tomorrow, not ever. If you’re so unhappy, go somewhere else and find out for yourself that the grass is not greener on the other side.

 

[Bona Botse]

wow, so many claims of "lots of users are unhappy with the service". i think there should be a poll to prove/disprove this.