dlk001
Executive Member
indeed, those are the words we use. lokishini (location)
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No 'theatrics' for Mbeki
- Thread starter marine1
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indeed, those are the words we use. lokishini (location)
dlk001
Executive Member
Well Marine1 said "just speak to your average black person on the street” and used the domestic worker as an example.
Maybe, Marine1 will come up with other examples of "average black person" on the street because domestic worker is not in my analysis, opinion and moreover my experience.
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Really? Well that just shows how deep the indoctrination goes (or maybe the word came from the african language in the first place?)
Best I can do is township. And even that implies separation. Or the place name, as it should be. Just another suburb is how it should be. Seems the fascist language is embedded in your memes (or tell me it was an african word first!)
dlk001
Executive Member
Well, best you can do is township because maybe (I am assuming here), you are not from elokishini. kasi is a slang word for elokishini. elokishini is a Xhosa and Zulu word and has nothing do to with indoctrination.
What has this got to do with:
You used it. Tell me how. (Why did you not use suburb or any one of a dozen other words?)
Domestic worker is a worldwide phenomena (gee and many times white.) You guys must be special. A world of riches without domestic workers. Shame. But still living in the location. Don't you see you are no longer living in the location (but are living in an area suffering poverty due to no jobs.) Why did this government not start building immediately? Millions of jobs (a burgeoning industry.) People making money (even as domestics) and getting out of the township?
Oh, I forgot. Because it isn't/wasn't BEE. Instead they gutted all the local municipalities; put in incompetents. And here we are. Still waiting. Using fascist language. (gee maybe it is worse than I thought.) Especially as I still don't see the earth movers down the road!!
Domestic worker is a worldwide phenomena (gee and many times white.) You guys must be special. A world of riches without domestic workers. Shame. But still living in the location. Don't you see you are no longer living in the location (but are living in an area suffering poverty due to no jobs.) Why did this government not start building immediately? Millions of jobs (a burgeoning industry.) People making money (even as domestics) and getting out of the township?
Oh, I forgot. Because it isn't/wasn't BEE. Instead they gutted all the local municipalities; put in incompetents. And here we are. Still waiting. Using fascist language. (gee maybe it is worse than I thought.) Especially as I still don't see the earth movers down the road!!
thing is the government didn't inherit a well oiled machine as many seem to be assuming!
and yes the people who worked in the municipalities were experienced but had little interest in sorting out lokishini problems, so as a government what do you do if you have some1 who's not willing to help you solve yo problems?
/shakes head/
a non-racial, non discriminatory society.
We voted. We signed. We are still here. What more do you want? We said we will work together to solve problems. We swore on the bible. We got a new constitution.
Yes, it was a well-oiled machine. Thousands of "townships," thousands of suburbs, thousands of homes (in 20 years?) Now tell me who is deluded?!
a non-racial, non discriminatory society.
We voted. We signed. We are still here. What more do you want? We said we will work together to solve problems. We swore on the bible. We got a new constitution.
Have your problems been solved? NON. Now tell me who is lying and deluding themselves.
Yes, it was a well-oiled machine. Thousands of "townships," thousands of suburbs, thousands of homes (in 20 years?) Now tell me who is deluded?!
You voted, you signed but inside the workplace the reality was different and still is for different reasons thou. Yeah the living conditions inside those townships were not well oiled, trust me!
dlk001
Executive Member
Marine1 used the word location. To my understanding, he is refering to what we call elokishini or ekasi (where the domestic worker is coming from) and I have no issues referencing the same word he used. The core of debate with Marine1 is not location, ekasi etc.
You must be special because I simply do not get what are you exactly on about here?
Obviously if there are people that are unwilling to do their job they'd have to be removed, but I think a lot of them were technocrats that didn't really even have much of an interest in politics but were removed because of their race.
dlk001
Executive Member
You do what happened in Mdantsane, replace them with ones that are willing to sort out the problems and look at Mdantsane now. What an improvement!!!
Skeptik
Banned
It was a machine that worked. Just a few modifications needed. Instead, parts that were scarce and in perfectly calibrated order were replaced by low quality ones that would not last. The parts had the words "I vote ANC" inscibed on them.
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hehehehehehheheeee hail the inherited apartheid well oiled machine !!
dlk001
Executive Member
Hehehehehe.
When the vast majority of the population were not part of the configuration of the machine, I'd say it needed more than just a few modifications. That does not even take into account whether the machine was well oiled or not.
Nonsense - the voters form part of the alliance partners. Cosatu has several million members under the various trade unions. I attended a Cosatu rally before the last national elections and the entire thing was turned into a VOTE ANC Campaign. The people may be unhappy with a politician or two, but they know the ANC is bigger than any individual person. They will vote ANC until the ANC exists no more. It would take something like Jacob Zuma moving out from the ANC into his own political system to get votes away from the ANC - anything less and nothing will happen.
dlk001
Executive Member
Rubish. Name all the various trade unions that are under Cosatu membership and count the numbers. Do they add up to several million or under 2 million?
How many people vote for ANC? Now, divide that number with the Cosatu membership and lets see the ratio.
Black people vote for their individual issues!!!
More than 12% of the total voters are Cosatu members. More than 18% of the voters that voted ANC were therefore probably Cosatu members. Also, to further stress my point, election rallies (as iMonga has previously pointed out) pulls out all stops with people actually going from household to household actively rallying for ANC votes. Please don't try suggesting that ANC voting is based purely on common sense - it isn't - it is 100% and completely emotive. And one more thing - the ANC bused people into Hout Bay to bolster their numbers in the votes - it's a tactic the ANC would and do use.www.cosatu.org.za said:
dlk001
Executive Member
I'm not trying to suggest anything, I'm putting my experience and observation. Is that a wrong thing?
Even Marine1 said their domestic helper did not vote. Obviously people will canvas and point to the public why they should vote for ANC. If your bread and butter issues aren't dealt with, why would those people vote for that party? Are you suggesting that people vote for a party that is not helping their needs? Are you possibly suggesting that these people cannot vote with their minds based on their individual needs? Remember, its a secret Ballot.
I remember Dr Lennox Sebe (former president of what was known as Ciskei) used to conduct rallies with lots of freebies to try and lure the residents of Mdantsane to vote for him. People would simply attend those rallies, clap at him, enjoy the meat and drinks, go home and not vote hence he hated Mdantsane. People vote for their bread and butter issues and Mdantsane residents weren't happy with Sebe.
The average black voter has different issues than me or you and they might feel that the ANC is the party to address them if not already addressing them. Obviously, there are a lot of black people who will vote for ANC purely because of their anger at Apartheid. Who would blame them? They make decision based on their experiences even though I might not agree with that.
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dlk001: here's a few little theories I have about average South African voters
1. They don't want a white government in power ever again
2. There are tribal factions at play that demand higher loyalty than anything else
3. The ANC is not seen as a political party, but as the liberators.
Point number 3 is the reason people keep voting the ANC in. Screw the bread and butter issues, it is simply put a loyalty thing with the liberation leaders. The exact same pattern of voting is seen in Zimbabwe - despite a crackpot leader, the party enjoys an overwhelming majority at every election. Even though the bread and butter issues are completely screwed up in Zimbabwe, the people keep voting Zanu-PF. It is the same here - the liberators are seen and held in the same esteem. I frequently go and read the messages on the Freinds of Jacob Zuma website, not because I'm a Zuma supporter, but because I enjoy seeing where his supporter's think the problems in this country are. It is incredible what kind of support the people in this country give Jacob Zuma, despite the glaring evidence that he is a very stupid man, and quite an incapable one at that. Despite all this, the people love him to the point of almost placing him above their religion. And when you start thinking of your politicians as Superstars, then you will never see the bad in them - but only ever the good. Similarly you will downplay any and all criticism of them, irrespective of facts to the contrary. And that is how a failing and entirely incompetent government remains in place - and will always remain in place until a full new generation that does not view the ANC in such a light makes up the majority vote.
1. They don't want a white government in power ever again
2. There are tribal factions at play that demand higher loyalty than anything else
3. The ANC is not seen as a political party, but as the liberators.
Point number 3 is the reason people keep voting the ANC in. Screw the bread and butter issues, it is simply put a loyalty thing with the liberation leaders. The exact same pattern of voting is seen in Zimbabwe - despite a crackpot leader, the party enjoys an overwhelming majority at every election. Even though the bread and butter issues are completely screwed up in Zimbabwe, the people keep voting Zanu-PF. It is the same here - the liberators are seen and held in the same esteem. I frequently go and read the messages on the Freinds of Jacob Zuma website, not because I'm a Zuma supporter, but because I enjoy seeing where his supporter's think the problems in this country are. It is incredible what kind of support the people in this country give Jacob Zuma, despite the glaring evidence that he is a very stupid man, and quite an incapable one at that. Despite all this, the people love him to the point of almost placing him above their religion. And when you start thinking of your politicians as Superstars, then you will never see the bad in them - but only ever the good. Similarly you will downplay any and all criticism of them, irrespective of facts to the contrary. And that is how a failing and entirely incompetent government remains in place - and will always remain in place until a full new generation that does not view the ANC in such a light makes up the majority vote.
And that is why as long as the "legacy" of apartheid is kept alive, the vote will remain emotive.
dlk001
Executive Member
I think as a society, depending on our social differences, there will always be theories and perceptions against each other. From my experience, I have no reason to believe that the "average South African voters" don't want a white government in power ever again. Voting for ANC does not mean "average South African voters" don't want a white government in power ever again.
My theory is that people will continue to vote for a party that they feel is best at addressing their diverse needs. Classification of "average South African voters" under 1,2,3 is just going to open a never ending political and emotional debate. I couldn't even classify my family, relatives and friends under 1,2 and 3.
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