Official Man United Supporters' Thread

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Like what I said in the Boring Boring arsenal thread... United are starting to look like George Graham's Arsenal (Famous Five at the back and Ian Wright up front)...

Wow, we are not that bad! And many of the games that have ended 1-0 have been totally dominated by us, just we have failed to take all of our chances. It's not like we go 1-0 up and then sit back on the lead, like Chelski did that one season they won it, with so many 1-0 wins.
 
Leave Tracking Back To The Grunts...



The British football fan is a strange beast at the best of times; often more like a manic depressive who has mislaid his lithium than a rational sentient animal and this week has been the perfect illustration of their lunacy.

To many it would seem the worst crime a footballer can commit isn't to fail to score, miss a header or kick a goalkeeper in the neck - no, the worst thing a player can do is Not Track Back.

Tracking Back has somehow become wrapped up in commitment to the game, to the club, to the player's level of masculinity even.

Now, while you need your defensive players, your midfield disrupters and holding men to track back, surely the most creative players should not be asked to chase back to regain possession. It's what the other nine outfielders are there to do.

We've seen Ronaldo take a fearful slagging this week for his failure to bust a gut to get back, but this is madness. Any old potato can do that side of the game but you need your best and most creative players concentrating on breaking down defences and scoring goals. Considering the fact that the shiny Portuguese kid has knocked in around 60 in two seasons clearly shows this is what he's good at. Would he have scored as many if he was in his own half trying to get the ball back down by the corner flag? Surely you want players to work where they are most effective. When Ronaldo loses possession it's up to the defenders to get it back - that's their job.

We don't criticise lumbering defenders for not being able to dribble, do we? No-one accuses a defender of not tracking forward. But for some reason the flair player must also be required to be a water carrier as well as a mercurial wizard.

This feels like part of that very British disease which considers level of work-rate over and above anything else. The one that runs around most wins.

Running around a lot for many fans and managers at both club and international level has become the definition by which a good player is judged. Failure to track back means he's lazy, which for many years was also a by-word for foreign. Johnny Foreigner is a slacker you see, prone to dossing around and not keen on sweating out his pre-match bottle of brandy by running 100 yards towards his own goal to get a ball back. Probably likes lifting shirts as well. Running = Being A Man y'see.

You will still get a feeling of that below the surface in the criticism of the likes of Ronaldo; that somehow he lacks the moral courage or grit to run towards his own goal like a jack rabbit on speed, get the ball and knock it long like some mythical English hero like Bryan Robson would have done. Indeed, Captain Marvel's whole schtick was based around a lunatic level of running and physicality which frequently meant he was often injured, having lost an arm tackling someone by the corner flag in a pointless display of bravado and machismo. Robson's work-rate throughout his career was always lauded even though his consequent injuries deprived the side of any work at all for weeks at a time. But people couldn't see past the sweat and grind.

As long as I've been alive, the flair players have all had this Not Tracking Back criticism. They used to accuse Charlie George of it in the early 70s. His manager just thought Charlie couldn't be arsed to do what Frank McLintock could do, but anyone with their mind not in neutral realised that Charlie was a genius whose talents were wasted doing the hod-carrying. In fact, almost any flair player in Britain at one time or another has been accused of lacking work rate and Not Tracking Back.

How has work-rate become elevated to the status of supreme illustration of commitment to the cause? Is it because your thickest fan just wants to see a lot of movement because he confuses skill with energy?

I remember sometime in the late 80s seeing Liverpool's rotund midfielder Jan Molby destroy Middlesbrough with a display of incisive passing. He barely strayed outside of the centre circle but totally dictated the game. Afterwards as we were leaving a bloke behind me said 'How did we let that fat **** do that? He doesn't even run around much?' Presumably if Molby had run around more and made less killer passes, this bloke would have respected him more. See, it's always been like this. It's nothing new. But it is still insane.

Ronaldo attracts much criticism, some of it justified, but to want him to leave the club because you're outraged at his refusal to Not Track Back, is madness especially when you've got Paul Scholes on hand to do a two-footed tackle on an advancing player's neck.

Work rate isn't everything for any player, it's how effective he is in the work that he does that counts. Any fool can run around a lot.

To demand your world-class creative player to work like the grunt labour is like being outraged that Bob Dylan has come round your house and played you 'Highway 61 Revisited' instead of doing the washing up. 'I can't believe it - you've just performed a work of genius and never lifted a finger to help in the kitchen. Shocking work Bob. Get out!'

But it won't change. This country seems to worship perspiration over inspiration and is cynical about creativity that seems to come without graft. Maybe it's the protestant work ethic deeply ingrained or maybe it's just a tradition we can't get beyond but either way, it is one of British football's ugliest traits.
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8746_5165886,00.html

Very good article.
 
Vidic & Co The United Fall Guys...Posted 12/04/09 19:20
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A month ago, Nemanja Vidic was many people's pick for player of the season as United's impregnable defence provided a platform that catapulted the champions to the top of the league. Now as United's defence has a whiff of Swiss cheese about it, Vidic's reputation has taken something of a battering.

The Serb's fall from grace is emblematic of the malaise at Old Trafford - but it would be unfair to place blame solely at his door. The reality is that United's midfield has a soft underbelly that has been exposed time and again in recent weeks - leaving Vidic and co without protection.

The rot seemed to be setting in during the second leg of the Champions League against Inter. United got through, but largely due to the profligacy of their Italian opponents. If United's failings had been covered up by that result, their weaknesses were ruthlessly exploited in their thumping by Liverpool.

That victory was a tactical masterclass from Benitez as his side unpicked the lock between United's midfield and back four and then laid waste to United's aura of invincibility. The tactics were two pronged. Firstly, Liverpool's 4-2-3-1 formation saw Anderson and Carrick drawn into a combat with Mascherano and Alonso. In sucking them in, Benitez opened some space between United's midfield and their centre-halves.

Liverpool's direct approach - launching numerous, early long passes to exploit the pace and power of Torres - forced Ferdinand and Vidic to play a little deeper than usual thereby widening the critical gap. Gerrard filled the vacuum and United simply could not cope. It was notable that Fergie substituted three of his starting midfield quartet that day.

The question then would be whether any other side could similarly exploit United's midfield frailty. The surprise was that their next opponents, Fulham, did so with such ease. Key to this victory was Ferguson's selections on the day - resting Rooney was bizarre, but had less of an impact than his decision to play the ageing legs of Giggs and Scholes in the middle of the park - offering little by way of defensive screen to his back four. Fulham capitalised, bossing midfield with ease - and again exploiting the space and time afforded them in front of United's defensive unit.

Many felt that the international break had come at a good time for United, allowing them to analyse their problems and refocus. On the surface, their late late show against Villa suggested that normal service had been resumed. However, on the evidence of Tuesday night's performance against Porto, the concession of two more soft goals against Villa on Sunday suggested that few lessons had been learned by the champions.

Yet again, the defensive weakness in United's midfield was there for all to see. If United are still not aware of it, then it seems that observers in Portugal certainly were. Scholes and Carrick and later Carrick and Fletcher were desperately loose both when in possession and without the ball. The performances of Lisandro and Hulk for Porto were reminiscent of Torres and Gerrard in Liverpool's impressive Old Trafford drubbing of United. Both used the space in front of United's defence to great effect - Hulk's power and movement pulled the overworked Vidic into wide areas where he was less than comfortable, while Lisandro (and Porto's midfield runners) probed intelligently in the space provided.

So while the spotlight shines on the likes of Vidic as United continue to concede goals and chances at an alarming rate, the truth is that as a team, United have sprung a leak further up the park. No matter how good a defender you are, if your midfield does not fulfil its defensive duties, then you are in danger of being exposed.

Up until four or five weeks ago, Vidic and co dealt very comfortably with what slipped past the United midfield - which really wasn't very much. But that defensive screen has become so porous in recent timers, that even the heretofore rock solid Serb has struggled to cope.
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,13320_5180508,00.html

Too true.
 
Wow, we are not that bad! And many of the games that have ended 1-0 have been totally dominated by us, just we have failed to take all of our chances. It's not like we go 1-0 up and then sit back on the lead, like Chelski did that one season they won it, with so many 1-0 wins.

Apples and oranges mate, apples and oranges... Chelsea were formed into that style of play - similarly to how the great Catenaccio teams were... However, the reason why Arse and united became boring was due to the focus shifting mainly to defence, safe in the knowledge that they had players who score/setup at least a goal a game (Ian Wright, C.Ronaldo)...
 
Apples and oranges mate, apples and oranges... Chelsea were formed into that style of play - similarly to how the great Catenaccio teams were... However, the reason why Arse and united became boring was due to the focus shifting mainly to defence, safe in the knowledge that they had players who score/setup at least a goal a game (Ian Wright, C.Ronaldo)...

I see what you are saying.

Either way, I am sure we can all agree that any team (specially Pool right now) would gladly win the league just by winning 1-0 and drawing some 0-0. It's points that count :)
 
Sir Alex Ferguson has called for Manchester United to invoke the spirit of 1999 when they take to the field against Porto on Wednesday.



A decade ago, United came from two goals down away at Juventus to win their semi-final 3-2 after drawing the first-leg 1-1 to send them into the final against Bayern Munich, thanks to an inspired performance from Roy Keane.

They then came back from 1-0 down to beat Bayern in the final few minutes to lift the trophy, but Ferguson wants to draw on the experience of Turin when comparing the size of the task his side face if they are to progress this year.

The holders face an uphill task if they are to qualify for the last four of the UEFA Champions League after drawing their quarter-final first leg 2-2 at Old Trafford last week, but the boss wants to draw inspiration from one of their best-ever European nights.

"Juventus is the game that springs to mind," Ferguson said. "We drew at home and then had to win away, which we did. There are plenty of performances we'd like to replicate - it's not as if we're short of them.

"The players have to go out there and play to the standard expected of Manchester United.

"All of the players have to be up for it on this occasion, it's not just about individuals. The players are going to have to step up to the plate."

Meanwhile, Manchester United winger Nani is confident that the Red Devils can knock his boyhood heroes Porto out of the UEFA Champions League.

"Why am I confident? Simple, because we have the best players in the world," he told The Sun. "We have the confidence wherever we go. OK, we know Porto are a very good team, play good football and showed their own strengths at Old Trafford but it may be more difficult for them now.

"When you're at home you have to go forward more, and that could leave them under pressure. We are going there to win and we're confident we can do it."
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=637231&sec=uefachampionsleague&cc=3888

Damn right. I think we can do it :)
 
I see what you are saying.

Either way, I am sure we can all agree that any team (specially Pool right now) would gladly win the league just by winning 1-0 and drawing some 0-0. It's points that count :)

This is where a team like Barca and alot of clubs differ. Winning is not enough at a club like Barca.

You have to win with style or the supporters wont be happy.

Its the same mentality at Real Madrid.
 
This is where a team like Barca and alot of clubs differ. Winning is not enough at a club like Barca.

You have to win with style or the supporters wont be happy.

Its the same mentality at Real Madrid.

I'm sure winning the Quintuple would be.
 
Much better performance. Finally. This result could change our recent bad form. What a goal by Ronaldo. That should keep the haters quiet for a day or two ;)
 
Bah! Boring game... Went to sleep at half time...







:p

Didn't see the game, only the last 10 minutes or so - wasn't bad. Surprised by the slim scoreline, but excellent defending from United. Rio & Vidic are awesome together.

EDIT: Before you all go and dig up my recent posts - I stand by my recent comments. Rio still sucks in my opinion - it's the synergy between the two players that makes an amazing duo.
 
EDIT: Before you all go and dig up my recent posts - I stand by my recent comments. Rio still sucks in my opinion - it's the synergy between the two players that makes an amazing duo.
ya I must say I take back that Riding on Vidic's coat-tail comment earlier in the season...

Seems as tho Vidic is the Engine whilest Ferdinand is the Cogs holding the pieces together... Vidic breaks up play and Ferdinand cleans up... great partnership there
 
Not really - Vidic does most of the work - Ferdinand makes it look nicer. He is solid at the back, but if you remember him without Vidic... well lets just say he was baaaaaaaaad. Vidic puts his head where most players wouldn't put their legs and gives 110%. with Ferdinands smooth style and experience backing up that workhorse... they do make a lethal partnership...
 
Barce is smoking hot this season, but i'm hoping its an all english final!
That goal was unbelievable, how far out was that?
 
Good times all round.

Defence looked miles better with Rio back next to Vidic. Midfield was not too bad. Rooney had to do way to much work, especially tracking back, for my liking. But he did it well.

Anderson is still not good enough, neither is Nani.

BBT still looked short of match-fitness.

O'Shea actually did better, for once.

Hopefully, it is onward and upward from here.

Next up, the Fa Cup :)
 
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