Telkom blasts MWEB’s transit cut decision

[Hotmetal]

Dear johnelis, the biased "2 post" forum troll.

The one thing that this is doing is making it very attractive to rather use Telkom Internet, at least that way you can get to all the good sites quickly.

Really? Care to explain what the "good sites" are that will be loading faster? Judging by your "2 post" record, it would be http://www.telkom.co.za/

M-Web has abused their alliance with Multichoice for many years, "free" advertising on DSTV and as the other article says, M-Web will be used to distribute DSTV through peering relationships.

You have any type of proof whatsoever that it was "free advertising"? Obviously you don't.

Although Telkom has a monopoly, at least Altech broke that. The REAL monopoly left behind is Multichoice.

Neotel? TopTV? Wake up..

Using that to try forcing this issue makes even Telkom squeeky clean. Where in the modern world does it cost as much as we pay for the limited service we get from DSTV.

Even if you were to be a telkom or mtn employee, the fact that would you try and defend Telkom's wrongdoing is downright disgusting. Telkom is the shackles oppressing this country.
So please, before you try and feed us another bull$hit diatribe, save yourself some time and don't even bother. MyBB members won't be buying any of the non-sense you're trying to sell.

Dam forum troll.

 

[Hotmetal]

Wait... what?

International peering is free - but it is not congested.

Local peering is not free - but it is congested.

Anybody care to explain this?

If i understand it correctly, the reason (MWeb's) local peering is congested is because Telkom's transit costs are more expensive than buying international bandwidth on Seacom (for example).
Its ludicrous that buying capacity on Seacom (which runs for thousands of km's under the sea) is cheaper than buying local capacity on Telkom.

Go figure.

 

[johnelis]

I am so excited, all this hype around how this is going to save M-Web money. The real test will be to see M-Web now reduce the cost of their unlimited product. That is the only way I would believe that their intentions here are genuine.

 

[Hotmetal]

I am so excited, all this hype around how this is going to save M-Web money. The real test will be to see M-Web now reduce the cost of their unlimited product. That is the only way I would believe that their intentions here are genuine.

We're not buying any of the non-sense you're selling.
If the cost of their uncapped comes down or not, that is not a 'real test' of any kind. Free local peering should of been in place ages ago and Telscum have been milking all the ISP's.

 

[PsychoR8der]

I didn't have time to read everyone's posts, but by the looks of it, most if not all support MWEB's actions.

I personally back MWEB's decision 100%, as things need to drastically change in order to improve on the current ADSL situation in this country.

The reason I think that most people support MWEB's decision (correct me if I'm wrong), is because people enjoy seeing a company try and better its service to benefit the client. Where companies like Telkom suck you dry in order to make money, and justify it by spinning all kinds of crap stories, which they think will fool people forever.

People don't have ANY respect for Telkom anymore, neither do I, and Telkom will never get that respect back, becuase they F*&^#$ people over for too long. Even though MWEB's network might take a hit from all this rerouting of connections, people will still back them up, as MWEB is doing it for the consumer, which is a refreshing change to see in a company. People believe in someone who they respect, like MWEB, irregardless of how "rough" things might be for the next few weeks/months, whereas people are sick of hearing ANYTHING said by someone who they have no respect for at all, aka Telkom.

It stays quite amusing that Telkom, after seeing majority of hatred towards them, still assume that people will support their "8-ta" service, no matter how "cheap" it may get. People like me, just out of pure principle, will NEVER support Telkom, EVER!

I hope this move from MWEB does change things in the ISP market, as ISPs merely copying each others' services are getting pretty old, fast.

 

[Hotmetal]

I hope this move from MWEB does change things in the ISP market, as ISPs merely copying each others' services are getting pretty old, fast.

I was one of the 'trial' users for MWeb's uncapped service. Overall I've been really happy with them (doing around 350gig a month these days).

Regardless of how 'rough' things get (or the whacky promotional packages that other isps offer), I will be sticking with MWeb and I'll be making
sure to recommend MWeb's offering to my clients provided MWeb keeps on reinventing itself and keeps pushing for such drastically needed change in this country which ICASA and DoC can't seem to get right.

 

[Rouxenator]

The BEE elite shows their true intentions again. Go to hell telkom & mtn.

 

[Weasley]

I don't think you guys truly understand why the big ISP don't want to peer with the likes of MWEB, sure they charge for interconnect rates, but its simple, in the industry there would most likely be a standard rate for that (you cant sell for more than you buy unless you have all the chips), Telkom uses MTN's network and pays for its use. Then vice- verse, so at the end of the day companies only gain any "profit" if their own network gets used more than what it uses other companies networks.

Now with the majority of internet users in SA using mobile phones to access the internet and the rest using telkom, that's where most of the traffic is. Now along comes MWEB with their little user base in comparison to the big ISP's and demands open peering. Firstly MWEB doesn't have as much traffic as the big ISPs and as such telkom, MTN and Vodacom would have to "subsidize" MWEB to use of their respective networks. Then who would end up paying for MWEB consumers, the big ISPs users, so MTN Telkom or Vodacom would charge you more.

Yes the big ISP's milk us dry, yet we the consumer keeps on supporting them. MWEBs trying to score some extra customers, lower their own costs at the expense of other companies and you all fell for it. Sure good will come of freeing the local loop, but MWEBs looking to score and they bias in myBB articles is not helping anyone.... The only one that could really make a difference is the government, or more competition, so either move to MWEB or Cell C, otherwise you have no right complaining. Better yet stop supporting anyone, but making the sacrifice of not trolling myBB is to much.

These network upgrades continue unabated and MWEB has now become the biggest buyer of ADSL IPC capacity in the country – around 70% more than its closest competitor.

I see this way all the hosted sites must put pressure on mtn/telkom/vodacom to freely peer with mweb and the other isp's as mweb has probably the biggest amount of adsl users witch is the client/potential clients of the hosted sites. No point on hosting content on a network that very few of your clients can access optimally.

 

[PsychoR8der]

I was one of the 'trial' users for MWeb's uncapped service. Overall I've been really happy with them (doing around 350gig a month these days).

Regardless of how 'rough' things get (or the whacky promotional packages that other isps offer), I will be sticking with MWeb......

Close friends of mine also immediately got MWEB uncapped accounts, and never looked back since. I'm currently using Afrihost uncapped, and will soon jump ship over to MWEB, no matter what the outcome of their current actions are. MWEB showed that they are a company that knows how to run a business model and plan ahead, and they have been able to handle the influx of uncapped users where other ISPs failed miserably.

ISPs that tried to copycat the uncapped offering so soon out of the gate without planning and couldn't handle it, showed me the lack of intellect they have towards even the most obvious facts. They also said "we didn't expect that people will download so much" and "we didn't expect so many uncapped users", and is just pathetic! It's like giving people unlimited fuel, and then saying "we didn't expect people will drive all over the country so often now".

I myself was more than happy with my 512 with 10 gig of cap, and then it was upped to 15gig, and I could live off that with ease. I thought let me try 4mb, and I could use that speed without really trying at all, so I thought, let me try uncapped, and now I'm currently doing 90gigs a month, where I actually can live off of just 10gig. The fact remains, if people buy uncapped, they WILL use it, simple.

Sorry for the wall of text.

 

[Cltgra005]

I am so excited, all this hype around how this is going to save M-Web money. The real test will be to see M-Web now reduce the cost of their unlimited product. That is the only way I would believe that their intentions here are genuine.

This isn't about Mweb saving money. It's about driving down the price of bandwidth and ADSL in SA. It's about ISP's charging customers for something they wouldn't be paying for, were it not for greedy ISP's.

Telkom is like a King who gets money through bullying and corruption, then when Robin Hood appears and steals his money to give to the poor, he gets upset.

Personally I think the only people who will really notice slower internet are the gamers, and everyone else who needs faster ping times. Those who surf, download heavily, and check email won't really be affected. Hopefully, Telkom and MTN cracks before the shouts from the consumers become too loud. And I hope Mweb hold their ground, since they, and just about everyone on MyBB (who can be considered the "most informed" members of the public) are 100% in favor of open peering.

One other thing I noticed is the steps Cybersmart have taken. After they've begun peering with Mweb, there's been word of they webhosting reseller packages. So they're clearly 100% behind Mweb. Ignoring Laurie's silly remarks regarding his "uncapped" offering, I still believe Cybersmart have always looked for innovative ways to save the consumer money.

I also heard word a few weeks back about Cybersmart considering a better capped ADSL offer, but I can only assume they've put the offer on hold due to the recent developments in the broadband industry.

 

[system32]

MWEB is correct

I will gladly live with a bit of latency. Mweb, you make me proud.

+10

99% of the internet is overseas, so I doubt that latency will be an issue.

Local peering was setup in when SAIX/ADSL launched to save costs of routing over expensive SAT-3
Since SAT-3 was so expensive it made financial sense to peer, and as long as the artificial peering costs were less that SAT-3, ISP's would sign up.

Today we have Seacom and EASSy which charge less than peering.

The correct solution is to offer free peering - this is the standard in USA - well done MWEB.

One way to reduce latency is to move your hosting to MWEB, or overseas.
It cost's less to host overseas anyway.

 

[Gatecrasher]

While this MWeb peering story is big news here on MyBB, and one of the most interesting stories of the year, why is not being covering on ICT News sites like TechCentral, ITWeb, etc? Not a peep.

 

[Hotmetal]

Personally I think the only people who will really notice slower internet are the gamers, and everyone else who needs faster ping times.

I do play games so I feel the slower ping times although I do tend to download "a lot". That being said, Rudi Jansen did mention something about an announcement that gamers will be waiting for.

 

[jimmycool]

Telkom actually has it all wrong - they haven't been peering with anyone yet. Here is the real definition of peering as taken from Wikipedia:

"Peering is a voluntary interconnection of administratively separate Internet networks for the purpose of exchanging traffic between the customers of each network. The pure definition of peering is settlement-free or "sender keeps all," meaning that neither party pays the other for the exchanged traffic; instead, each derives revenue from its own customers. Marketing and commercial pressures have led to the word peering routinely being used when there is some settlement involved, even though that is not the accurate technical use of the word. The phrase "settlement-free peering" is sometimes used to reflect this reality and unambiguously describe the pure cost-free peering situation."

Here is the link if you have the grace to read the whole article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peering

 

[fluffy54]

Go MWEB is all I say.

 

[johnelis]

So you mean you support the high costs we South Africans must pay ? I thought the intent was lower cost for the consumer or at least that is what is being sold to us, put up with poor performance for the low costs we are going to bring you. In my vies they are just trying to increase their margins and don't really have our interests in mind.

 

[fragtion]

Wait... what?

International peering is free - but it is not congested.

Local peering is not free - but it is congested.

Anybody care to explain this?

+1
In light of all the new international undersea fibre cables, the first thing that came to my mind was: "Ok, well we have this ENORMOUS international capacity, and its going to be super-cheap for big ISPs to buy wholesale now... But what's going to happen with the national network now? Prices for LOCAL peering cost more than international? This can't go on... it's only a matter of time before **** hits the fan." -- and now, Mweb make the first logical move. It's not going to be easy to get the fatcats/leechers to accept the fate, but the truth is the future of SA internet looks very promising, and it's all thanks to ISP's like Mweb, Afrihost, and Openweb for starting this revolution... without that type of competition, Telkom would still be raping us for every cent possible.

At last, we're making progress - unfortunately, we're in the middle of that transitional phase, so we're having to endure with the sacrifices of that process (ie, gamers or other latency-sensitive users having bad international latency, etc). In the end, the side that innovates will prevail - Mweb must persevere the storm - they will win!

I cant wait to see what the internet here is going to be like in ~2 years time... okay sure, we're FAR behind (1st world) international standards at the moment, but I think anybody who understands the implication of Seacom and EASSy, with WACS, Main One, etc landing next year, can see the same vision for the near future that I can see. A poor national terrestrial network / the local loop are the major inhibitors right now, and that will be overcome by increased demand/competition, and this massive influx of international capacity along with evolution of the web and its requirements in general. Things need to change - they are changing, and I believe this decision by Mweb has significance about that process. We all need to support this move and be patient through the rough times

Now if only Telkom would get off their retarded asses and make plans to start rolling out Fibre to the home. 8-ta can suck my balls, I'm already sorted for mobile: I'm with Vodacom. I need fast fixed-line internet, and with copper cable theft being as bad of a problem for Telkom as it is, the solution is clear for them to see: fibre, not another cheap-ass GSM network, PLEASE... FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU.

 

[Lydon]

Bah...Telkom are ones to talk!

 

[synack]

From now, at every Telkom media meeting/interview/whatever, someone needs to say "not in the spirit of the internet community" in regards to what Telkom is doing at that time. I'm pretty sure at any given point it will apply to telkom, cause they never do anything "in the spirit of the internet community".

 

[smokey]

The one thing that this is doing is making it very attractive to rather use Telkom Internet, at least that way you can get to all the good sites quickly. M-Web has abused their alliance with Multichoice for many years, "free" advertising on DSTV and as the other article says, M-Web will be used to distribute DSTV through peering relationships.

Although Telkom has a monopoly, at least Altech broke that. The REAL monopoly left behind is Multichoice. Using that to try forcing this issue makes even Telkom squeeky clean. Where in the modern world does it cost as much as we pay for the limited service we get from DSTV.

just wait 'til the CoD fanbois start raging at their ISPs for not peering with MWeb due to Mweb's (currently) exclusive deal for CoD:BO servers in SA... anyway... I don;t see how the "best" sites are going to load much quicker. the difference between international ping and local ping is approx 500. that's 0.5s. while that might be a lot for gamers... if we're talking about normal websites then it's nothing.