Trading Trouble

[PostmanPot]

To be honest, I'm getting to the point of just telling PostmanPot to forget it, keep the drive, the money, the warranty and have himself a nice new Western Digital whenever the hell they sort that out. Because, honestly - this is not worth my time. And if the NEXT drive has similar problems and I have to go through this wonderful charade again, I would honestly much rather chuck it in the trash. So what's the point? At least that way this will be settled and both of us can get on with our lives.

I certainly will not forget about this, and will put all my efforts into getting the verdict as soon as possible, even if it means that I have to drive the drive to some other distributor/place to speed up the process.

I do not intend on keeping anything that is rightfully yours - it hurts when you make such "accusations", although I do understand that you are going through a bad time.

 

[The_Techie]

I'm sure WD have a tool to check whether drives are working properly, did you use that tool to try to scan/fix any sectors of the drive that may have been borked before going the RMA route?

Good idea, though I'm not entirely sure that it would've fixed the damage caused by a physical fault. That click of doom is quite nasty

 

[feo]

Good idea, though I'm not entirely sure that it would've fixed the damage caused by a physical fault. That click of doom is quite nasty

Well, I just bought a HDD from PP as I said, and it was making a thud noise similar to the one that dying drives make. Did I just give up and ship it back to CT? Nope...

Got the Samsung tools from their site, burnt a boot CD from it, ran a 2.5-3 hour diagnostic and it found no errors. Next step, what else could be causing the problem? My PSU is full of dust and could be supplying the drive with "dirty" power so I DISMANTLED the entire PSU and blew every spec of dust out of that sucker and reconnected and guess what....problem gone.

I'm not saying Lycanthrope should've done that, my point is that a few basic troubleshooting steps wouldn't hurt.

 

[PostmanPot]

Well, I just bought a HDD from PP as I said, and it was making a thud noise similar to the one that dying drives make. Did I just give up and ship it back to CT? Nope...

Got the Samsung tools from their site, burnt a boot CD from it, ran a 2.5-3 hour diagnostic and it found no errors. Next step, what else could be causing the problem? My PSU is full of dust and could be supplying the drive with "dirty" power so I DISMANTLED the entire PSU and blew every spec of dust out of that sucker and reconnected and guess what....problem gone.

I'm not saying Lycanthrope should've done that, my point is that a few basic troubleshooting steps wouldn't hurt.

Eish, the sound the HDD made this afternoon is definitely not going to be fixed by a diagnostics test.

 

[Sackboy]

Well, I just bought a HDD from PP as I said, and it was making a thud noise similar to the one that dying drives make. Did I just give up and ship it back to CT? Nope...

Got the Samsung tools from their site, burnt a boot CD from it, ran a 2.5-3 hour diagnostic and it found no errors. Next step, what else could be causing the problem? My PSU is full of dust and could be supplying the drive with "dirty" power so I DISMANTLED the entire PSU and blew every spec of dust out of that sucker and reconnected and guess what....problem gone.

I'm not saying Lycanthrope should've done that, my point is that a few basic troubleshooting steps wouldn't hurt.

How is it that two drives from the same source are troublesome? Where do they come from?

Why is it the customer's problem if a drive is faulty? The contract was with the person from whom the part was bought.

 

[The_Techie]

My PSU is full of dust and could be supplying the drive with "dirty" power

I'm not saying Lycanthrope should've done that, my point is that a few basic troubleshooting steps wouldn't hurt.

Point taken

 

[PostmanPot]

Please see replies in red.

How is it that two drives from the same source are troublesome? Where do they come from?

It's been established that it was feo's PSU that made him think the HDD was faulty. Cleaning up the PSU sorted out the problem AFAIK.

So that's one drive out of many, I have never denied the possibility of the drive being faulty on arrival.

Why is it the customer's problem if a drive is faulty? The contract was with the person from whom the part was bought.

A faulty drive is certainly not a customer's problem.

The person from whom the drive was bought is dealing with the establishment from which the drive was brought - common protocol.

 

[feo]

How is it that two drives from the same source are troublesome? Where do they come from?

Why is it the customer's problem if a drive is faulty? The contract was with the person from whom the part was bought.

My drive was a Samsung Spinpoint and Lycanthrope's was a Western Digital, I don't know if PP sourced them both from the same supplier.

In any case, my drive is fine now, I have aging hardware (well, not THAT old) which just didn't play nice with the drive but it's not faulty. Can I get a quote on a PSU Postman.. (kidding, gotta lighten up the mood in here)

And whoever made the comment about couriers not handling things with care is probably correct. If the shipping company messed up, tough luck. You're just gonna have to wait for WD to issue a replacement drive. A HDD is not exactly the personification sturdiness if you know what I mean. It has delicate mechanical parts that can easily break in transit. What I can't explain is the mark on the drive when the thing was bubblewrapped..that's wierd.

 

[Sheepbot]

Ok well, its quite clear that neither of you had any part in creating the "ding" on the drive, which just leaves the supplier. I don't see why you cannot say that you received it in that condition and DEMAND a replacement.

There's a MUCH greater chance of something happening to the drive on the suppliers side than on either of yours, so its quite an obvious conclusion to say the least.

Postman, you bought the product from the supplier, the product was faulty, now make it THERE problem and make them give you a replacement.

 

[PostmanPot]

Ok well, its quite clear that neither of you had any part in creating the "ding" on the drive, which just leaves the supplier. I don't see why you cannot say that you received it in that condition and DEMAND a replacement.

There's a MUCH greater chance of something happening to the drive on the suppliers side than on either of yours, so its quite an obvious conclusion to say the least.

Postman, you bought the product from the supplier, the product was faulty, now make it THERE problem and make them give you a replacement.

I am going to be handling this in as assertive manner as possible.

As stated previously, it is very possible that the drive was damaged prior to my buying it, but not damaged enough to deem it dead on arrival, and enough juice to have it run for a while.

 

[sn3rd]

Sackboy, I was just thinking the same thing. However, I don't agree with you COMPLETELY. The fault lies with whoever damaged the drive. Now they aren't sure who it was, and it's beginning to look like a moot point anyway. Besides, it's not productive to argue over this.

I can't say that PostmanPot handled the RMA in the best way, however he seems to at least recognise WHERE he went wrong and I assume his service will only benefit from it.

Also, you can have as many good references as you like, but from the point of view of the buyer, it seems like a pretty bad deal.

I understand that, at this stage, there really isn't much that can be done by PostmanPot. Come Monday, they'll have a better idea of what's going on. But I also think that, while he couldn't do much to accelerate the convalescence of the situation, he could at least have offered some sort of sympathy greater than "I'm sorry this happened". Although it could well be neither Lycanthrope nor PostmanPot's fault, the fact remains that Lycanthrope put his trust in PostmanPot, having cut his losses with a drive he didn't trust, and instead had a less-than-favourable experience with the new hard drive. The supplier sits with their money from PostmanPot, PostmanPot sits with the R500 plus the (presumably) still working Seagate, and Lycanthrope gets a paperweight.

I also understand that if a business wishes to succeed, they need to be critical of returned goods.

If PostmanPot had been more vigilant about checking the condition of the drive between exchanges, then the situation wouldn't have escalated to this point. And while this responsibility doesn't ONLY lie with PostmanPot, I'm inclined to believe that MOST of it does. The average Joe on the street might not know much about how banks work, and it is up to the bank employees to make sure that all the correct procedures are followed. And if they are not, and the proverbial fecal mater hits the air-moving rotational appliance, the bank is liable.

@ Lycanthrope:
TBH, I think it's slightly short-sighted to want to give up on this. Sure, it doesn't look good at this stage, but if you simply give up, then I don't think it's PostmanPot's responsibility to motivate you. However, if you keep your spirit up, then I DO think it's PostmanPot's responsibility to do right by the customer, whatever that may be.

 

[sn3rd]

By the way, in the original post, it states that the PC would not even POST with the hard drive connected. Which makes it a little difficult to run diagnostics.

Besides, as PostmanPot said, it doesn't require diagnostics to figure out that a drive making unknown loud noises has something wrong with it.

 

[PostmanPot]

Sackboy, I was just thinking the same thing. However, I don't agree with you COMPLETELY. The fault lies with whoever damaged the drive. Now they aren't sure who it was, and it's beginning to look like a moot point anyway. Besides, it's not productive to argue over this.

I can't say that PostmanPot handled the RMA in the best way, however he seems to at least recognise WHERE he went wrong and I assume his service will only benefit from it.

Also, you can have as many good references as you like, but from the point of view of the buyer, it seems like a pretty bad deal.

I understand that, at this stage, there really isn't much that can be done by PostmanPot. Come Monday, they'll have a better idea of what's going on. But I also think that, while he couldn't do much to accelerate the convalescence of the situation, he could at least have offered some sort of sympathy greater than "I'm sorry this happened". Although it could well be neither Lycanthrope nor PostmanPot's fault, the fact remains that Lycanthrope put his trust in PostmanPot, having cut his losses with a drive he didn't trust, and instead had a less-than-favourable experience with the new hard drive. The supplier sits with their money from PostmanPot, PostmanPot sits with the R500 plus the (presumably) still working Seagate, and Lycanthrope gets a paperweight.

I also understand that if a business wishes to succeed, they need to be critical of returned goods.

If PostmanPot had been more vigilant about checking the condition of the drive between exchanges, then the situation wouldn't have escalated to this point. And while this responsibility doesn't ONLY lie with PostmanPot, I'm inclined to believe that MOST of it does. The average Joe on the street might not know much about how banks work, and it is up to the bank employees to make sure that all the correct procedures are followed. And if they are not, and the proverbial fecal mater hits the air-moving rotational appliance, the bank is liable.

@ Lycanthrope:
TBH, I think it's slightly short-sighted to want to give up on this. Sure, it doesn't look good at this stage, but if you simply give up, then I don't think it's PostmanPot's responsibility to motivate you. However, if you keep your spirit up, then I DO think it's PostmanPot's responsibility to do right by the customer, whatever that may be.

Good post, and I assure you it has been taken to heart and mind.

What sort of greater sympathy do you think I should have offered?

 

[feo]

If PostmanPot had been more vigilant about checking the condition of the drive between exchanges, then the situation wouldn't have escalated to this point.

Am I the only one that thinks that the seller should not check the condition of anything unless permission is given by the buyer to do so. In any case, I feel it's the supplier's duty to make sure that they supply WORKING good's to the reseller in the first place.

My verdict here is that the supplier caused the ding and since it can't be proved, they get off scot free.

 

[PostmanPot]

My verdict here is that the supplier caused the ding and since it can't be proved, they get off scot free.

I sincerely hope this is not going to be the case. As soon as I am back there, I will have a meeting with the head of technical and perhaps the manager will join us.

 

[Sackboy]

Am I the only one that thinks that the seller should not check the condition of anything unless permission is given by the buyer to do so. In any case, I feel it's the supplier's duty to make sure that they supply WORKING good's to the reseller in the first place.

My verdict here is that the supplier caused the ding and since it can't be proved, they get off scot free.

I do.
Assuming the drive was faulty before being handed over - if the manufacturer will not refund/replace the drive, does that mean the buyer will not get it either or is the reseller going to accept his responsibility and replace it himself (as required by law)

 

[sn3rd]

Good post, and I assure you it has been taken to heart and mind.

What sort of greater sympathy do you think I should have offered?

Well from what I understand, Lycanthrope was not readily kept in the loop. While it's not your responsibility to baby him, you could probably have kept him more updated WRT the status of the situation. However, if this was not the case, then I guess this comment should be disregarded.

I sincerely hope this is not going to be the case. As soon as I am back there, I will have a meeting with the head of technical and perhaps the manager will join us.

That will hopefully be the turning point. At the moment, it looks like Lycanthrope is going to take the fall

 

[sn3rd]

Am I the only one that thinks that the seller should not check the condition of anything unless permission is given by the buyer to do so. In any case, I feel it's the supplier's duty to make sure that they supply WORKING good's to the reseller in the first place.

My verdict here is that the supplier caused the ding and since it can't be proved, they get off scot free.

Of course permission should be given. I CERTAINLY wouldn't want to receive opened goods.

However, it is the seller's responsibility to ensure that the correct protocol is followed. And this is a 2-way street. It's not only to protect the consumer, but also to protect the interests of the seller. In a situation like this, the seller could simply say "Well that 'ding' wasn't there before, as we verified. As such, I can't take responsibility for a faulty product, because the product has been physically damaged while in your care." and the buyer wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Not so in this case.

 

[PostmanPot]

Well from what I understand, Lycanthrope was not readily kept in the loop. While it's not your responsibility to baby him, you could probably have kept him more updated WRT the status of the situation. However, if this was not the case, then I guess this comment should be disregarded.

If you don't mind, please explain where I did not keep him in the loop?

As soon as the technician showed me the ding, I immediately phoned Lycanthrope.

As soon as I got home, I emailed him to reiterate what we had discussed as per our telephonic conversation.

Am I misinterpreting you as to where/when I should have kept him in the loop?

 

[ld13]

Am I the only one that thinks that the seller should not check the condition of anything unless permission is given by the buyer to do so.

Nope, I'm with you on that one. The seller just needs to check that there is no physical damage to the Packaging/Product when receiving it from the supplier. It is quick and easy to check a HDD in a static bag for example. Easier to blame the relevant parties should a damaged HDD be found inside an undamaged and sealed static bag.