Uncapped ADSL acceptable use policies compared

[Wolfy]

I understand that they'll boot you if you bypass shaping but thats about it. Thats the only illegal thing I can think about right now

 

[elvis_presley]

My uncapped account is NOT contended or shaped and has no draconian FUP.
I pay more for it, but at least I can do what I want with the line and not worry about all the crap that these FAKE uncapped accounts dish out.
Way to go OpenWeb!

Openweb actually has the same catch-all "we can do what we like to you whenever we want" FUP clause that everyone moans about on every other service:

>> 5.3.6 INTERFERES WITH THE USE AND ENJOYMENT OF INTERNET RELATED SERVICES BY OTHER USERS OF OPENISP CC SERVICES;

The fact they haven't used it on you doesn't make their FUP any better. It's still there.

Edit: Do you REALLY think it's not contended? So they've set aside (I assume) 4mbit of bandwidth on the national backbone, and 4mbit just for you on Seacom? Wow. They must be making a fat loss off that! Internationally, cheap home accounts are usually contented 50:1, and business 20:1. Would actually be interesting to see what the ISP's contention ratios are.

 

[elvis_presley]

I think you are a bit confused there. I'm not on the OpenWeb account that you think I am. There is no FUP and no contention on my account.

Which one are you on? The Terms & Conditions apply for all the accounts on their site, are you on an unlisted account?

Edit: I didn't mean for that to sound snarky, but last time you were banging on about an amazing account, and it was just an OpenWeb Gold or Platinum account, neither of which are anything like what you describe, so I assume you found something better?

 

[TJ99]

Using ports/technology available to you is not illegal - duh.... maybe you can point us to the exact law, with your obviously far superior knowledge of our legal system?

I'd also like to know how they know you're doing something illegal - if its against the law to monitor what you do?

That would be things like distributing child pornography, hacking into Amazon and stealing credit card details etc.. Anything that normally qualifies as a crime, that you use the internet connection for. Fairly straightforward really, I would have thought most people knew these laws.

Using ports or that other nonsense is not illegal, but that would be against the policy, which states that you aren't allowed to bypass shaping. Again, duh.

 

[xrapidx]

That would be things like distributing child pornography, hacking into Amazon and stealing credit card details etc.. Anything that normally qualifies as a crime, that you use the internet connection for. Fairly straightforward really, I would have thought most people knew these laws.

Using ports or that other nonsense is not illegal, but that would be against the policy, which states that you aren't allowed to bypass shaping. Again, duh.

Ok - and how exactly will they know you're doing something illegal? And without you being successfully prosecuted for said crime in a SA court - what gives them the right to decide you've done something illegal?

And where does it state using port 80 to download nntp is bypassing shaping, or downloading from an unshaped http source is bypassing shaping? So again...

Mweb and Afrihost continue to have vague policies.

Duh.

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

I'd also like to know how they know you're doing something illegal - if its against the law to monitor what you do?

they not allowed to monitor and they don't but If they receive a valid complaint than they have to follow up on it. eg if you visit child porn websites and child watch or something contacts them to get your details they have to provide your details to authorities as it contravenes our laws. this also applies to copyright etc.

 

[elvis_presley]

I have been on this account for two years now. I migrated to it from those old Uncapped Express+ accounts when they were still running around R1200 a month. Those came to an end and Mr.Beep hooked me up with something better and at a better price!

Does this account have a name?

Yeah I remember the uncapped express+ days. Was a happy customer for years. Looking back now, you realise how absolutely crap they were, how could have we been content with them!

It pays to be very outspoken about OpenWeb on this forum!

Okay, that at least explains your evangelistic tendencies toward Openweb!

 

[Bern]

dont bother with telkom and any other isp running on the IS backbone.

It does kinda sound like you are saying they run on IS..

You forgot that MWEB will also boot you off the network.

Never had that problem and there seem to be a lot of happy MWEB customers.

I think you are a bit confused there. I'm not on the OpenWeb account that you think I am. There is no FUP and no contention on my account.

There is a FUP on every account from every ISP and you are contended my friend, they probably are just managing the network very well or have many users who are pretty inactive. The internet is built on contention, that is just how it works.

There seem to be a few people unhappy with MWEB, but on the whole a lot of people have an excellent experience. There also seem to be a lot of happy Openweb uncapped account holders, anyone had a bad experience with Openweb? To those who have had a bad experience with either, was it your exchange or did things clear up with another ISP?

Web Africa, those FUP are nice and clear, but way harsh!

 

[LazyLion]

There is a FUP on every account from every ISP and you are contended my friend, they probably are just managing the network very well or have many users who are pretty inactive. The internet is built on contention, that is just how it works.

We mean in comparison to these fake uncapped accounts that the article is talking about. Try to keep up with the thread.
There's not much point jumping in on the ass end and misreading everything.

 

[elvis_presley]

We mean in comparison to these fake uncapped accounts that the article is talking about. Try to keep up with the thread.

I REALLY want to know the name of this "true" uncapped account you keep going on about. I want to see "1:1 contention" on a page without an FUP, then I'll tell Mweb to go shove their account. The best on OpenWeb's site seems to be Gold and Platinum and they're not what you describe. I know one of those 2 is just a resold Altech account.

 

[xrapidx]

Never had that problem and there seem to be a lot of happy MWEB customers.

Hows that relevant? Does that mean it doesn't happen?

 

[Bern]

We mean in comparison to these fake uncapped accounts that the article is talking about. Try to keep up with the thread.
There's not much point jumping in on the ass end and misreading everything.

What did I miss exactly? You call Openweb uncontended, that is straight wrong, in fact they shape as well on the Gold account

Gold Uncapped

Account Information

Our Gold ADSL network was designed for the home and business user whom requires good latency and a superior internet experience.

With lower contention ratios and an A-Grade network, clients can rest assured that if their Telkom line is up, their ADSL access will be available.

* Shaped: P2P, torrents and similar services are given the lowest priority on the network

I am happy you are getting great service from Openweb, but don't make statements like "uncontended" that and you won't get called out on them.

As for fake uncapped? Really? Its a function of contention and shaping, they state how it is done and you can choose to use or not. Ask the guys on Afrihost and MWEB getting 500GB+ if they think they are seeing the arse-end of an unfair FUP.

Even Openweb Gold uncapped notes the contention, but this option doesn't shape like their other accounts to:

Gold Uncapped - Unshaped

Account Information

Our Gold ADSL network was designed for the home and business user whom requires good latency and a superior internet experience.

With lower contention ratios and an A-Grade network, clients can rest assured that if their Telkom line is up, their ADSL access will be available.

Gold Uncapped Unshaped is 100% unshaped, with no limits. Full speed access all day

100% unshaped, full speed (contention permitting is then implied)

Hows that relevant? Does that mean it doesn't happen?

It is relevant as I am using the service and have never had that issue, neither has anyone I know using the same ISP. It may happen, I am just saying I doubt it is some sort of policy and may have some other reasons. I had a friend who thought they were being booted off by their ISP, turned out to be Telkom fiddling at their exchange for a week. Best idea, get a 1GB capped from another ISP and test it before declaring your normal ISP as the problem.

 

[Bern]

We mean in comparison to these fake uncapped accounts that the article is talking about. Try to keep up with the thread.
There's not much point jumping in on the ass end and misreading everything.

What did I miss exactly? You call Openweb uncontended, that is straight wrong, in fact they shape as well on the Gold account

Gold Uncapped

Account Information

Our Gold ADSL network was designed for the home and business user whom requires good latency and a superior internet experience.

With lower contention ratios and an A-Grade network, clients can rest assured that if their Telkom line is up, their ADSL access will be available.

* Shaped: P2P, torrents and similar services are given the lowest priority on the network

I am happy you are getting great service from Openweb, but don't make statements like "uncontended" and you won't get called out on them! There are often misunderstandings by forum members about this, so need to make sure it clear (contention <-> uncapped link).

As for fake uncapped? Really? Its a function of contention and shaping, they state how it is done and you can choose to use or not. Ask the guys on Afrihost and MWEB getting 500GB+ if they think they are seeing the arse-end of an unfair FUP. We do need to call out ISPs that are not providing a good service as per what they are promising, but I think most of the ISPs are currently doing well considering the IPC system they have to work within.

Even Openweb Gold uncapped notes the contention, but this option doesn't shape like their other accounts to:

Gold Uncapped - Unshaped

Account Information

Our Gold ADSL network was designed for the home and business user whom requires good latency and a superior internet experience.

With lower contention ratios and an A-Grade network, clients can rest assured that if their Telkom line is up, their ADSL access will be available.

Gold Uncapped Unshaped is 100% unshaped, with no limits. Full speed access all day

100% unshaped, full speed (contention permitting is then implied)

Hows that relevant? Does that mean it doesn't happen?

It is relevant as I am using the service and have never had that issue, neither has anyone I know using the same ISP. It may happen, I am just saying I doubt it is some sort of policy and may have some other reasons. I had a friend who thought they were being booted off by their ISP, turned out to be Telkom fiddling at their exchange for a week. Best idea, get a 1GB capped from another ISP and test it before declaring your normal ISP as the problem.

EDIT:
@ MyBB - I have no idea what your budgets are, but what would be great would be if you could get a whole stack of ADSL lines and have an account from each ISP to test real world throughput (same data on each line) to then give us a definitive answer to who is currently performing the best and on which protocols. It will also allow you to let us know how the FUP is actually implemented on each. I would be happy to contribute a few R a month to this.

 

[elvis_presley]

EDIT:
@ MyBB - I have no idea what your budgets are, but what would be great would be if you could get a whole stack of ADSL lines and have an account from each ISP to test real world throughput (same data on each line) to then give us a definitive answer to who is currently performing the best and on which protocols. It will also allow you to let us know how the FUP is actually implemented on each. I would be happy to contribute a few R a month to this.

In fact, they'd only need to do 3 or 4 accounts. Most the ISPs are just resellers. You'd need to test the base accounts, and then do a table of who resells what.

People with their own infrastructure and backhaul, to my knowledge, are

- Telkom
- IS
- Mweb
- WebAfrica (Don't resell?)
- Vodacom (They've offered uncapped on Telkom infrastructure for a while, so it might just be the same as the Telkom uncapped now)
- Altech (although after what their CEO said about uncapped, we can expect their service levels to deteriorate or for them to drop uncapped altogether).

 

[elvis_presley]

We mean in comparison to these fake uncapped accounts that the article is talking about. Try to keep up with the thread.

Judging by the deafening silence from you, I assume you're on a Gold or Platinum account, and were mistaken about what you actually bought? Just another "fake uncapped" (as you like to say) that you're paying a bit more for slightly less fakeness.

 

[LazyLion]

Judging by the deafening silence from you, I assume you're on a Gold or Platinum account, and were mistaken about what you actually bought? Just another "fake uncapped" (as you like to say) that you're paying a bit more for slightly less fakeness.

Nope, guess again.

My point all along... even since Mweb launched their first fake uncapped account is that with a bit of careful shopping you can avoid all the unpleasantness and get yourself a proper uncapped account. Then there doesn't have to be so much whining and complaining. Go back and find that first thread when Mweb launched this product and you will see my predictions there. I can download as much as I want with no shaping, no threats, no throttling, no line speed reduction. I enjoy the full speed that my ISP gives me (when the Telkom ADSL network plays along), and in two years I have had no warnings or cut offs whatsoever. Yes, I pay a bit more than pretty much everybody else (R999) a month. But you get what you pay for. If you want the same thing talk to your ISP.

 

[xrapidx]

i don't really care what the fup says, its the implementation thereof.

I bet 90% of the people here haven't read any of the agreements put in front of them, DSTV, loans, dentists, doctors, toll gates, employment.

 

[Bona Botse]

I didn't bypass shaping in anyway yet I received a warning from MWEB. I think now that they have the numbers they'll maximise profits by booting off anyone who averages less than R10/GB.

 

[elvis_presley]

Nope, guess again.

I enjoy the full speed that my ISP gives me (when the Telkom ADSL network plays along), and in two years I have had no warnings or cut offs whatsoever. Yes, I pay a bit more than pretty much everybody else (R999) a month. But you get what you pay for. If you want the same thing talk to your ISP.

So... pretty much what I have with Mweb then.

You still didn't give a name for this mystery account? Why are you avoiding telling us what it is?! The only reason I can think is that you're talking BS and it doesn't exist. R999 is DIRT cheap for 4mbit uncapped unshaped uncontended. I'd switch in heartbeat if that account actually existed!

 

[xrapidx]

I enjoy the full speed that my ISP gives me (when the Telkom ADSL network plays along), and in two years I have had no warnings or cut offs whatsoever. Yes, I pay a bit more than pretty much everybody else (R999) a month. But you get what you pay for. If you want the same thing talk to your ISP.

I didn't bypass shaping in anyway yet I received a warning from MWEB. I think now that they have the numbers they'll maximise profits by booting off anyone who averages less than R10/GB.

So... pretty much what I have with Mweb then.

Obviously not

MWEB is the only ISP I've seen giving people the boot.